I watched the subject video, and observed several minutes of
silence to absorb the pain of the Palestinian woman in the 7 minutes video, and
it took me nearly an hour to gather myself to write about it, as I promised my friend
Paul Goldstein, that I will write my commentary about it. I hope my Jewish
friends see another point of view.
Israel cared the Arab Child; the Palestinian Mom wants him to be a terrorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKtWPMW9PSA
My only hope is for us to understand each other, and go beyond the words we
hear.
I am quoting a scene from my article that has been very influential in my outlook at the down and depressed. I am making one of the most important points of my life about this woman’s attitude and hope and pray that you get to see that point.
“Holocaust and the Muslim guy” at Huffington post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ghouse/holocaust-and-the-muslim-_b_4629509.html
When I was ten years old, I read just about every book my mother read. She was indeed a voracious reader on religion and social sciences; however, I was banned from reading certain books, and one of them was "Eichmann 60 lakh Yahudiyon ka Katil" in Urdu language. That is Eichmann, the killer of 6 Million Jews. My mother insisted that I was a kid and I should not read the book, she was protective of her child. However, I was able to sneak in and see a few horrible pictures which had shut me down for the next 44 years of my life.
I am quoting a scene from my article that has been very influential in my outlook at the down and depressed. I am making one of the most important points of my life about this woman’s attitude and hope and pray that you get to see that point.
“Holocaust and the Muslim guy” at Huffington post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ghouse/holocaust-and-the-muslim-_b_4629509.html
When I was ten years old, I read just about every book my mother read. She was indeed a voracious reader on religion and social sciences; however, I was banned from reading certain books, and one of them was "Eichmann 60 lakh Yahudiyon ka Katil" in Urdu language. That is Eichmann, the killer of 6 Million Jews. My mother insisted that I was a kid and I should not read the book, she was protective of her child. However, I was able to sneak in and see a few horrible pictures which had shut me down for the next 44 years of my life.
The picture (not this picture) continues to influence me; it is about betrayal
of a people. A group of Jews were shoved in front of a ditch and then were shot
into the pit. The looks of helplessness on their faces, as if looking at me and
saying, "you are not going to do anything about it?" They were not
complaining, but with all humility endured the betrayal from the entire world,
it has been a difficult picture for me.
For the next 44 years of my life, I was not able to see the
WWII movies with scenes from holocaust on the screen. I would turn the TV off
and go into silence for a while, just could not get over the idea how people
can do that to other people. There was fear in me, fear to witness that
betrayal.
They never begged any one to save their life and just stared
into the spaces even without complaining. I am sure the lost faith in God as
well. I have held them in very high esteem for the dignified death they faced.
You know the story of Masada; they would rather die than surrender and get humiliated. Did they care what the world thought of them? There are innumerable examples of these acts of dignity.
You know the story of Masada; they would rather die than surrender and get humiliated. Did they care what the world thought of them? There are innumerable examples of these acts of dignity.
In my college days, I shared my notes with a few friends to copy
the answers on their exam papers, I was caught red handed and was taken to the
principal’s office. My “friends” did not
even bother to stop by and ask about me. That betrayal and humility reminded me
of the betrayal, the Jews felt in front of that ditch.
Paul, that image strengthens my commitment to human rights. I have lost many friends for my stand, and a lot of income, but I am willing to lose it all but will not back out from speaking for the rights of people. I may be one of the dignified martyrs of Masada being reincarnated. By the way, those of you who don’t know me, I have stood up for all people with no exception including Jews - http://standingupforothers.blogspot.com/2012/02/standing-up-with-jews.html
Paul, that image strengthens my commitment to human rights. I have lost many friends for my stand, and a lot of income, but I am willing to lose it all but will not back out from speaking for the rights of people. I may be one of the dignified martyrs of Masada being reincarnated. By the way, those of you who don’t know me, I have stood up for all people with no exception including Jews - http://standingupforothers.blogspot.com/2012/02/standing-up-with-jews.html
This lady’s assertion that “death is normal” that “she will
send her child back again as a suicide bomber” “death does not frighten us” enlivened
that image of Jews at the ditch. She may have been the soul from Masada.
What have we done as a civilized society to get her to that point? It is the hopelessness of living a normal life. I saw so much pain in her; she did not see any point in sharing further, what for? Instead of understanding her, we are going after religion, easy way out to blame someone and running away from the responsibility.
She had given up on you and I, she has given up on Palestinians, Jews, Americans and the world, shame on us. I can forgive those “few” Israelis who are in pain themselves and want to inflict pain on others as if it will relieve them.
I do not like suicide bombers or any one who destroys life of others, if they claim to do it in the name of religion, it is merely an excuse that we should not be gullible to buy. Islam forbids suicide and killing others unless it is in self defense.
I am not supporting this woman's attitude either, all I am doing is seeing her point of view to learn and formulate policies to alleviate the root cause, if we can.
I am ashamed of me, you and others, and the world at large whose prejudice against Palestinians. Perhaps justifiable for their rocket attacks, suicide bombing and biased behavior – even though they have endured living in humility for 30 years without terrorism, the world did not care and did not do a thing about them. But when they resorted to terrorism in 1971, we blamed them and attempted to annihilate them. It is as if telling the humiliated woman who just got raped, that she deserved it.
Our formulated bias has stripped a sense of justice in us, and that is not healthy for a normal society. If we justify one prejudice, we are approving other prejudices against us. It is time to be human and don’t push others to this point.
Please enlighten me otherwise.
A few comments following my postings, only those who authorized to post.
What have we done as a civilized society to get her to that point? It is the hopelessness of living a normal life. I saw so much pain in her; she did not see any point in sharing further, what for? Instead of understanding her, we are going after religion, easy way out to blame someone and running away from the responsibility.
She had given up on you and I, she has given up on Palestinians, Jews, Americans and the world, shame on us. I can forgive those “few” Israelis who are in pain themselves and want to inflict pain on others as if it will relieve them.
I do not like suicide bombers or any one who destroys life of others, if they claim to do it in the name of religion, it is merely an excuse that we should not be gullible to buy. Islam forbids suicide and killing others unless it is in self defense.
I am not supporting this woman's attitude either, all I am doing is seeing her point of view to learn and formulate policies to alleviate the root cause, if we can.
I am ashamed of me, you and others, and the world at large whose prejudice against Palestinians. Perhaps justifiable for their rocket attacks, suicide bombing and biased behavior – even though they have endured living in humility for 30 years without terrorism, the world did not care and did not do a thing about them. But when they resorted to terrorism in 1971, we blamed them and attempted to annihilate them. It is as if telling the humiliated woman who just got raped, that she deserved it.
Our formulated bias has stripped a sense of justice in us, and that is not healthy for a normal society. If we justify one prejudice, we are approving other prejudices against us. It is time to be human and don’t push others to this point.
Please enlighten me otherwise.
A few comments following my postings, only those who authorized to post.
Mike
Ghouse Maor
Shapira
No I don't like suicide bombers at all and I condemn them, it is against Islam. But should we not understand why people do what they do?
You have a choice to believe what suits you, but if you are serious about finding answers, see a different point of view, and finding solutions instead of blaming "ideology"? All of us choose
No I don't like suicide bombers at all and I condemn them, it is against Islam. But should we not understand why people do what they do?
You have a choice to believe what suits you, but if you are serious about finding answers, see a different point of view, and finding solutions instead of blaming "ideology"? All of us choose
Mike
Ghouse Maor,
you have a right to draw your own conclusions. There is always a few bad apples
among all people. Muslims have them, Jewish have them, Christians, Hindus and
all other have them. We all have to find answers through seeing and hearing each
other.
John
Fredrickson The
concession must be made that most of the suicide bombings or terrorist acts that
are happening around the globe are done by Islamic extremists. What really
hasn't been said or mentioned though, is the fact that a lot of these extremists
have targeted Muslims themselves, in fact I'll go as far as saying the majority
of suicide bombings that happen have been against
Muslims
Pierre
Henri Huot I
have read the post and the comments that followed. I had seen and shared the
video on this woman in the hospital. I felt uneasy from the start of this post..
As though this post is a trap, having as its goal to condemn one side to the
benefit of the other
side under the control of who made the post. I am Jewish. I feel like staying
out. Not because I don't have strong views on what this Palestinian woman says:
such views are horrendous for me. But because I feel discussing the mental state
of this woman or the religious incitement to having her views (the first set of
questions) are not topics we are -- and certainly not I --- equipped to talk
about.
Establishing a proper evaluation of this woman's mental state requires a professional psychologist or psychiatrist who would have to meet with her in person over some time, and analysing how people are incited to having such views calls for some factual knowledge of the community she lives in. I feel also we are even less qualified to discuss the second set of questions about Sharia Law, Jihad, and the concept of death in Islam. There may be two exceptions to discussing these last questions, our two Muslims members. I would simply refer our group to two approaches to human development, that of Integral Spirituality (philosopher Ken Wilber) and of Spiral Dynamics (Don Beck, co-creator). Each views human beings going through various levels of conscience and development that show up in unique ways.
The higher the broader, the lower the narrower. At a low level, it is standard to want the death of any perceived outsider(s) to one's group. It basically has nothing to do with one's religion. The low level of exclusive consciousness brings about a seclusive view of life. The medical staff (assuming they are Jewish Israelis, and in as much as we know their real individual views about Palestinians, Muslims, and Arabs and about treating them and about treating this boy and woman's child) that looks after this woman's son are at a higher level of consciousness than she is (if what she says represents her real views and is not a smoke screen protecting her from reprisals; she knows she is being filmed and will be seen and heard and her son wil be known too).
The real issue in my view has nothing to do with Islam or Judaism. Nothing to do with being Israeli or Palestinian. I have seen such medical care from both camps. I have also seen such deadly wish from both. I would like to state that I live in a family where we are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and Buddhist, and that I have friends of other religions too. I have no desire or intention to go about entrapping any individual or any one community in 'my view of you is this and I am right and you are as I said and especially wrong.' With this, I intend to stay out of this debate as much as I am capable of.
Establishing a proper evaluation of this woman's mental state requires a professional psychologist or psychiatrist who would have to meet with her in person over some time, and analysing how people are incited to having such views calls for some factual knowledge of the community she lives in. I feel also we are even less qualified to discuss the second set of questions about Sharia Law, Jihad, and the concept of death in Islam. There may be two exceptions to discussing these last questions, our two Muslims members. I would simply refer our group to two approaches to human development, that of Integral Spirituality (philosopher Ken Wilber) and of Spiral Dynamics (Don Beck, co-creator). Each views human beings going through various levels of conscience and development that show up in unique ways.
The higher the broader, the lower the narrower. At a low level, it is standard to want the death of any perceived outsider(s) to one's group. It basically has nothing to do with one's religion. The low level of exclusive consciousness brings about a seclusive view of life. The medical staff (assuming they are Jewish Israelis, and in as much as we know their real individual views about Palestinians, Muslims, and Arabs and about treating them and about treating this boy and woman's child) that looks after this woman's son are at a higher level of consciousness than she is (if what she says represents her real views and is not a smoke screen protecting her from reprisals; she knows she is being filmed and will be seen and heard and her son wil be known too).
The real issue in my view has nothing to do with Islam or Judaism. Nothing to do with being Israeli or Palestinian. I have seen such medical care from both camps. I have also seen such deadly wish from both. I would like to state that I live in a family where we are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and Buddhist, and that I have friends of other religions too. I have no desire or intention to go about entrapping any individual or any one community in 'my view of you is this and I am right and you are as I said and especially wrong.' With this, I intend to stay out of this debate as much as I am capable of.
Paul
Goldstein Thank
you for your interesting perspective, Mike. I agree with a good deal of it
(though not necessarily every detail).
If a comprehensive peace in the region is ever to become a reality, it will be essential to bring together diverse perspectives from peace-seeking moderates of differing religious outlooks, nationalities, and ethnicities. It is important to listen to ideas from people of other backgrounds - ideas which may not be the same as our own - and come up with mutually acceptable solutions to bridge conflict and build for a peaceful future.
Maor, just to address the question of Norway: I stand on my statements. Though I don't live in Oslo (where most Norwegian Muslims live), I do follow national developments closely. The article you posted refers to the views of one extremist Muslim - so extreme that he was convicted of public anti-Semitism - and as the article notes, his ideas are opposed by other Muslims in the country. One extremist does not represent a community. This man's anti-gay campaign has not garnered any significant support or publicity.
I have personally known a number of Muslims in Norway, and the views of that particular extremist cannot be regarded as the norm. There are sadly also a few extremist Jews in Norway who are fiercely anti-Muslim and/or anti-Arab. They are the exception, and their views are not accepted by the mainstream of the Jewish community. The same is true for a few extremist Muslims - their views are not the norm in the Norwegian Muslim community. I prefer to look at what can be accomplished by accentuating the positive, ignoring the extremists, and bringing people together to help shape a more peaceful and accepting future for all.
If a comprehensive peace in the region is ever to become a reality, it will be essential to bring together diverse perspectives from peace-seeking moderates of differing religious outlooks, nationalities, and ethnicities. It is important to listen to ideas from people of other backgrounds - ideas which may not be the same as our own - and come up with mutually acceptable solutions to bridge conflict and build for a peaceful future.
Maor, just to address the question of Norway: I stand on my statements. Though I don't live in Oslo (where most Norwegian Muslims live), I do follow national developments closely. The article you posted refers to the views of one extremist Muslim - so extreme that he was convicted of public anti-Semitism - and as the article notes, his ideas are opposed by other Muslims in the country. One extremist does not represent a community. This man's anti-gay campaign has not garnered any significant support or publicity.
I have personally known a number of Muslims in Norway, and the views of that particular extremist cannot be regarded as the norm. There are sadly also a few extremist Jews in Norway who are fiercely anti-Muslim and/or anti-Arab. They are the exception, and their views are not accepted by the mainstream of the Jewish community. The same is true for a few extremist Muslims - their views are not the norm in the Norwegian Muslim community. I prefer to look at what can be accomplished by accentuating the positive, ignoring the extremists, and bringing people together to help shape a more peaceful and accepting future for all.
Mike
Ghouse Paul,
Maor, John and Pierre, thanks for expanding the range of understanding on the
issue. We should always be truthful in these matters for the sake of clarity. We
differ and I see where we do and how can we learn to respect the otherness of
others? If we can do it, others can do it too.
If you guys permit me, I will include your comments verbatim after the article link. If I don't have the permission, I will not included it. Thanks
If you guys permit me, I will include your comments verbatim after the article link. If I don't have the permission, I will not included it. Thanks
John
Fredrickson You
have my
permission
Maor
Shapira Please
don't include my
comments.
Paul
Goldstein You
have permission to include my
comments.
Pierre
Henri Huot Mike,
you have my permission. I have modified my previous comment so as to stand more
on its own and hopefully corrected all of its linguistic errors. Could you
provide me with the link so that I know which article you are referring
to?
Thomas
Frederick Schwartz I
would argue that whatever brought this woman to where she is, is less important
than the fact that she is such a horrible parent that her child should be taken
from her and raised in a loving home. It would obviously be better for the
child.
Paul
Goldstein I'm
quite sure the child would NOT be taken from her in the United States. Social
authorities require physical (or reliable eyewitness) evidence in the here and
now to act, based on how a parent has been treating their child in real life at
this time. Mere
words about what a parent may plan to do years ahead in the future would not be
sufficient reason to take a child away.
Perhaps social authorities may follow up at intervals if they are sufficiently concerned, but I doubt any court would enforce an order to take a child away based on a parent's expressed plans for the distant future.
Perhaps social authorities may follow up at intervals if they are sufficiently concerned, but I doubt any court would enforce an order to take a child away based on a parent's expressed plans for the distant future.
Thank
you
Mike Ghouse
(214) 325-1916 text/talk
...............................................................................................................................
Mike Ghouse is a public speaker, thinker, writer and a commentator on Pluralism at work place, politics, religion, society, gender, race, culture, ethnicity, food and foreign policy. He is a staunch defender of human rights and his book standing up for others will be out soon, and a movie "Americans together" is in the making. He is a frequent guest commentator on Fox News and syndicated Talk Radio shows and a writer at major news papers including Dallas Morning News and Huffington Post. All about him is listed in 63 links atwww.MikeGhouse.net and his writings are at www.TheGhousediary.com and 10 other blogs. He is committed to building cohesive societies and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day.
Mike Ghouse
(214) 325-1916 text/talk
...............................................................................................................................
Mike Ghouse is a public speaker, thinker, writer and a commentator on Pluralism at work place, politics, religion, society, gender, race, culture, ethnicity, food and foreign policy. He is a staunch defender of human rights and his book standing up for others will be out soon, and a movie "Americans together" is in the making. He is a frequent guest commentator on Fox News and syndicated Talk Radio shows and a writer at major news papers including Dallas Morning News and Huffington Post. All about him is listed in 63 links atwww.MikeGhouse.net and his writings are at www.TheGhousediary.com and 10 other blogs. He is committed to building cohesive societies and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day.
Well said. The cycle of oppression continues. The oppressed become oppressors.
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